When virtualexile surprised me by announcing that he’s pro-life, the first thought that flashed through my mind was “Really? But he didn’t seem like a fundie lunatic.” And he still doesn’t. So, to negotiate my feelings, I feel compelled to articulate my thinking on this issue.
Setting aside the slogans, hyperbolic names, (really, who is “anti-life”, or “anti-choice”?), and unusual special cases (rape/incest, serious birth defects, dangerous to the mother) let’s look at the practical angle. Undesired pregnancies happen. What consequences does the mother have to face, and what consequences should we force them to face? Abortions surely occur more often when abortion is legal, but, I suspect, and any woman who has had an abortion or given birth can attest or deny, pregnancy either ends early, or it ends in pain, sometimes both, and I suspect few women make a hobby out of it. If she has a child she strongly wished to avoid, what are the consequences for the child? And, to my mind, from policy perspective, the most important question is, what are the consequences for a society?
The unborn child is taking up residence inside the mother’s body: consuming the mother’s nutrients, nauseating, discomforting, and seriously inconveniencing the mother during the various stages of pregnancy. It is, for those 9 months, a parasite. After it is born, she could theoretically give the child up for adoption, so post-natal inconvenience is arguably irrelevant. But, many would be (or would-rather-not-be, as it were) mothers will turn to illegal, ungoverned abortions, which are likely to be far riskier than the legal ones, which I don’t believe are totally safe anyway, but I really don’t know.
At what point does the unborn child become enfolded under the protections of the law as an individual? Is a woman who drinks while pregnant guilty of forcibly feeding alcohol to someone who cannot legally consume it? Obviously not under the current law, but there’s a point here, which those who accuse would-rather-not-be-mothers of murder are failing to appreciate. The consequences for the child are that it either will not be born at all, or that it will be born to a mother that would rather not have it. While having an at best indifferent mother sucks, I think that looking at the child’s welfare alone, I’d favor an anti-abortion stance.
Let’s now look at the cost to society as a whole. There’s enforcement expenses. There’s criminalization of a significant, though not overwhelming, number of young females. There’s an increase in births, but particularly in births of underappreciated children. There’s a decrease in marketplace employment, particularly female, with an increase in domestic labor that is probably even greater, which leads to reduced taxes, and thus reduced public sphere development, though that’s a stretch, and probably a marginal factor. There’s a tangential issue relating to paternity suits, and payments, but I don’t really think that’s directly relevant.
It’s scary to me that some view the use of birth control as wrong, because it denies the potential for life. Early stage abortions, prior to the development of a nervous system more sophisticated than that of a jellyfish, strike me as no more morally troublesome. Late stage abortions, are somewhat heartless, but not more evil in my book than throwing your ex-druggie, brain-fried, little brother, who can’t find a job, out of your house because you don’t want to or can’t put up with him, his use of your space, and his consumption of your food. And from the big picture, I think legal abortions provide for a more sustainable rate of population growth and a better public sphere.
lunatic 😉
Abortion rights are a horrid issue. One LJ friend of mine excommunicated me when I told her I was pro-life. She not only removed me from her friends list, she publicly demanded that I remove her from mine.
I’ve seen genuine hatred on both sides — pro-choicers who assume pro-lifers are evil misogynists, pro-lifers who assume pro-choicers are evil murderers.
I look at this issue, like I look at many issues, from a libertarian/green/Buddhist/anarchist perspective (if that makes any sense) 😉
I believe that life should only be taken when necessary. “Necessary” means that one life form’s survival requires another life form’s death. (I differ from vegans in that I believe eating is one form of necessity that requires another life form’s death.) I would only support abortion if necessary to save the life of the mother.
As for what legal standards to use, or what punishments to assign … I’m open to suggestion. I’m more concerned that unwanted pregnancies never happen in the first place — I favor explicit and comprehensive sex education in schools, free condoms on every dining table in the land, and a prime-time Presidential address in which GWB would demonstrate how to negotiate the use of a condom when your boyfriend doesn’t want to use one.
I realize that reasonable people can differ on the abortion issue. Personally, I’ve never voted for somebody just because he/she was pro-life. I’ve voted for Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, and Gore. So, in the grand scheme of things, I’m harmless to the pro-choice cause.
Veganism and Abortion
No matter how you spin it, you can live without animal flesh. Neither moose nor I have died or suffered serious harm from the lack thereof (at least, to the nearest of my knowledge on his part). Your physiology isn’t that different from ours. I’ve even put on more muscle mass (at least, I hope some of it is muscle =) as a vegan. I suspect that you do differentiate between species (would you eat homo sapiens or its fellow genus members? Other simians?)
Though you were quite careful to say “life forms”, I think we both regard killing a thinking being as worse than killing a nonthinking being. We just draw the border a little differently. Vegans, btw, generally eat things that necessitate a lifeform’s death. Plants, specifically. Though, the quantity of plant matter consumed in the production of meat is pretty astonishing. That aside, fruitatarians (or whatever they’re called) who eat only fruit and other no-killing-even-of-plants-required food, may be what you’re thinking of. But even they kill bacteria, like it or lump it.
If I were starving in the mountains after surviving the crash of a private plane, or something, and I had only meat as a dietary possibility, I would eat it. I might even kill an animal to get it. But that scenario hasn’t happened yet, and I don’t anticipate it happening anytime soon.
Safer sex doesn’t provide a 100% guarantee of safety, either from HIV transmission or from pregnancy. My father once detailed to me which form of birth control me and each of my two sisters was born under. Prevention can control most of the social concerns, but not the individual quality of life ones. The mothers for whom birth control failed would have to accept that their plans for at least the next 9 months, and quite possibly their lives, would need serious modification.
My take on the whole thing is that there’s nothing especially magical about the merging of sperm & ova. There is something rather magical about the development of a central nervious system, and there’s something very magical about a life physically separating from its mother. Let the entities with the magic live.
Re: Veganism and Abortion
Jainists, IIRC.
Re: Veganism and Abortion
Sure, I can live without animal flesh. On most days I do live without animal flesh, especially when Moose is cooking 😉 I do agree that a diet consisting of mostly/all plants is healthier and better for the environment. I disagree that killing animals for food is “wrong”.
I wouldn’t eat humans because I don’t want other humans getting the idea that humans (i.e., me) make good food.
I understand why many people value animals with central nervous systems over plants, but it can not be proven that plants are not sentient, and I’d rather not assign different values-of-life to different life forms. I think that any line-drawing would be arbitrary, just like I think that any line-drawing for the development of a fetus into a human would be arbitrary.
I know that birth control methods aren’t perfect, but they can’t work at all if they aren’t used. I am dismayed by how many people don’t use them. Still, I don’t think that birth-control babies are less valuable than fully-intended babies.
I do respect other people’s opinions on these matters. They are difficult ethical questions and I don’t believe that laws are useful answers to these questions until (if ever) we can reach a consensus.
Re: Veganism and Abortion
Well, on the veganism subject, even if you value plant and animal life on a non-discriminatory, per lifeform basis, rather than a graduated scale of sentience, why do you not take into account the many, many plants the animal needs to become food for you? Also, if eating meat is worse for the environment, how is it conceptually different from a suburbanite who never goes offroading or tows anything, but still has to have the powerful suv from a moral perspective?
As for the “abortion is murder” question, how do you regard my point about alcohol (and/or tobacco) consumption while pregnant. Should that be criminal?
Re: Veganism and Abortion
I hate to give the impression that I’m pro-meat-industry 😉 I am a mostly vegetarian person who loves vegan cuisine but who refuses to say that eating meat is “wrong”. Agreeing that A is preferable to B is different from saying that B is wrong. When I fly on airplanes, for example, I insist on being provided with a vegan meal.
Your basic argument at this point sounds to me like this — killing animals for food isn’t necessary, killing animals for food is wasteful, so killing animals for food is wrong. You compare this to — driving an SUV isn’t necessary, driving an SUV is wasteful, driving an SUV is wrong.
You’ve seen me take strong stands against SUVs, but not strong stands against meat. The difference in my thinking is due to my belief that killing a life form in order to eat it is never “wrong”.
In my own life I struggle to reduce my impact on the local and global environments. I do more than the average person, but I do not adhere to strict rules like “never sit inside an SUV” or “never eat meat.” I am an imperfect being and sometimes I let go of trying to be right all the time. Better than average is a good enough score for me.
Ideally pregnant mothers would avoid substances that are known to be harmful to fetuses … I don’t have the mental energy to pursue this issue right now … I need breakfast! *duck*
Re: Veganism and Abortion
So, I really, really shouldn’t, but I can’t help myself
The difference in my thinking is due to my belief that killing a life form in order to eat it is never “wrong”.
Does this mean that eating aborted fetuses makes it okay?
I should try to let go of having the answers all the time, but…
I think we can all agree that in an ideal world there would be no unwanted babies, or accidental pregnancies (or drug taking pregnant mothers). If only we lived in that world =)
Re: Veganism and Abortion
Yes. Perhaps we can convince McDonald’s to use aborted fetus material in their new Chicken Select Strips.
Re: lunatic 😉
For what it’s worth, I’m pro-choice, but I think I’d probably shift viewpoints on the issue pretty quickly if it was my kid. It’s much easier to be pro-choice in the abstract when it’s about other people’s decisions, but in the moment I think many pro-choice people would have a really tough time deciding what to do. Pro-choice doesn’t mean pro-abortion, after all.
For me, it’s really just a matter of whether the government should be able to dictate people’s morality – and I don’t think it’s any more acceptable for abortion than it is for gay marriage or “sodomy” laws. Abortion is a gray area, certainly, but there already limitations imposed on it, and when it comes down to it, the soulsearching a person has to do on their own is far more important than whether the federal government has an official position on the issue.
Re: lunatic 😉
My brother and his wife just brought a baby boy into the world, and if she’d had an abortion that baby boy wouldn’t be here today … it is very difficult to be pro-choice when holding a healthy, wanted newborn, in my humble opinion.
A lot of us say we don’t want the government to dictate morality … but what we are really saying is that we don’t want the government to enforce particular morals that many people disagree about. Democracy shouldn’t allow 51% of the population to tell the other 49% how to live their lives. On some issues, like murder & rape & carjacking, nearly everybody agrees that the government should enforce the law. The problem comes when 51% try to tell 49% that gay sex, euthanasia, or abortion should be against the law. Perhaps laws should require more than just 51% to be passed. Perhaps democratic governments should only enforce those values that are nearly universal. Majority rule makes life very difficult for minorities.
I had a hard time deciding on this issue, until I realized that the real issue was deciding what I believed, not which of pro-choice/life I thought was correct.
That said, my belief is that a fetus is a human, and an abortion is taking an innocent human life, or at the very least, a potential human life. What situations is this a reasonable response to getting pregnant? If the mother’s life is at stake, I could understand (although regret) taking the life of the baby. If the birth control failed… does the inconvenience of a pregancy really outweigh the decision of taking a human life? For me, no way.
But I also can’t bring myself to want to declare this as law on people as a whole. Nothing is black and white, and I’m not sure it’s something the government should really be regulating as black and white. So while I believe abortion is Wrong, I can’t stay I’m pro-life. On the other hand, other people who use abortion as birth control or a “mistake fixer” or a backup in case birth control fails upset me a lot. Yes, they have a right to their decision, but I don’t have to like the decision. It’s this discomfort that makes me think I’m not really pro-choice either.
I approve heartily of birth control and safe sex and even the idea of not having sex if the possibility of pregnancy is that awful (I,I “technical virgin“). But pre-measures are really a separate issue than post- considerations. It’s no good preaching abstinance to a frightened teenaged girl.
Sex is hard. Let’s go shopping.