As I was boiling water for my pre-packaged couscous it occurred to me that another perspective on this could be that gay men are more herd animals than lesbians. That of course led to the question of why. The money thing does seem like a likely explanation. The idea of culture being defined by mass marketers is pretty sad, but may be more accurate than I like to think about.
I guess my point is to question the value of a unifying culture for homos. Alot of the same resources that define the common experiences of gay, american, men of at least the middle class are also available to lesbians. There is a lesbian floor on gay.com, is it much used? If not, is that actually a bad thing? There are lesbian bars, but I hear they are fewer, don’t get as much business, comparatively speaking, and are generally less successful than gay bars. That speaks to me of the supply of lesbian bars exceeding the demand. I guess I’m asking what it is about the gay cultures (for conveniences sake, we could talk about geek, bear, drug, gym bunny, bar, and drag subcultures) that is so great?
I have lesbian stereotypes, though I have no idea if they are valuable descriptive groupings, let alone if they cluster into communities: lipstick, earth mother, diesel dyke, punkette, angry activist. To me those all imply a way of being, but not a way of being together. Comparing that with my conceptions of the gay male communities formed out of the cultures I listed above, I have at least as much of an association of common activies, or communication techniques as I do for descriptive elements of the stereotypes in the gay male categories. Is this because I don’t know dick about lesbian culture (no pun intended) or is it that there are lotsa lesbians who identify with these categories, but don’t congregate, because they don’t feel the urge to congregate, or what?
To me those all imply a way of being, but not a way of being together.
That would assume that one does not tend to associate with people who share interests. I’m not really sure that distinction is fair. I don’t claim to know anything about lesbians. I generally don’t hang around with many anymore.
I don’t know anything about all those other peoples you mentioned. As an outsider to them, I think a lot of them are just ways of meeting people with similar sexual fetishes.
But drag is different. It’s rare to see two drags hook up. What is so great about drag culture? For me, it’s really helpful, because frankly, I haven’t found any place where I fit in better. It means that someone like me, who is very eccentric, even as gay people go, doesn’t have to feel like they’re a freak among freaks. In a world where a boy who likes to wear makeup and shops in the ladies department is immediately on thin ice, that means an awful lot.
I really don’t know what I’d do without my friends and drag family. I’d be much more lonely. Lord knows, it’s important sometimes to be able to talk about problems and have someone say, “I’ve been there too.” With my friends, there’s no need to explain myself or rationalize anything. I just do my thing, since I don’t hurt anyone, and nobody asks any questions. It’s nice to have a crowd where I don’t have to guarded about ANYTHING. If I want to talk about the cute pair of strappy sandals I saw, bare in mind, there’s a lot of women who get offended by me talking about my favorite outfits from the ladies dept. Most gay guys probably won’t be offended, but I don’t typically get a lot of feedback either. It’s good to be able to talk about things you’re interested in without fear. It makes one feel connected to other people.
I also like the way families are formally organized among drags. I think that’s neat. It goes waaaaaaay back, and I wonder a lot about the history of it.
I think doing pageants and performing has helped me learn a lot of organizational skills, and improved my confidence. It’s also improved my appearence both in and out of drag. Bare in mind, an awful lot of drags work in the beauty industry. We help each other out a lot, and I get deals and freebies through people I know. All of these things have had a positive effect on my income, for certain.
And that’s just a few things off the top of my head. At this point, I feel like one can never really lose out by being connected to more people, and if making inroads into my strange little segment of the gay world is a rewarding way to do it, then that can’t be a bad thing.
Well, for me, it depends. In large part, it depends on the interests. I like hanging out with geeks. Gymnasts are generally lots of fun to look at, but I’ve yet to find a current gymnast that I mesh with socially. Frequently, talking with vegans gives me a headache.
I can’t totally agree with that. It is a way to meet people who you dig, but rarely is it “just” that. would be a better one to ask about bear culture (also, possibly and , but it seems to share some “asexual” values. Informality, calm, casual, plain-spoken. And gym bunnies tend to value accomplishment, self-improvement, goals, ambition, that sort of thing. I probably know more about lesbian communities than crystal meth users, on the whole, but some of them watch one another’s back and some of them are totally self-interested hedonists. I’d guess that bar flies value extended social networks and being admired, but, if they stick to the same bar/scene they know and love, they may be more careful about introducing sexual drama there than they would be at work. And geeks I could write for weeks about. I live that one like a second skin. There are geek ways to get laid (various websites spring instantly to mind), but I would claim that geek culture has little to do with getting laid.
Yeah. I’m not sure if you were thinking about me when you wrote that, but I’d totally fall into that category. More of a “I don’t know what to say, here,” silence than a “This is pissing me off,” silence. =)
I’m curious about this, and know nothing about it myself. Please, enlighten me.
It is a way to meet people who you dig, but rarely is it “just” that.
Of course! But all of those groups like the Centaurs, Brother Help Thyself, The Bear Club, they start off as a way to meet guys. I don’t doubt there are deeper depths to the relationships they form than just a quick pickup. Otherwise, why join a social organization? If you want to just pick up a bear, you can show up at the Eagle Friday nights. But.. one shouldn’t sweep fetishism under the rug in those groups because my observation has been that S&M play is more frequently the exception than the rule.
I’m not sure if you were thinking about me when you wrote that, but I’d totally fall into that category. More of a “I don’t know what to say, here,” silence than a “This is pissing me off,” silence. =)
Right! Although some will say otherwise, drags are very different than most gay guys. We’re our own little creatures. Not everyone knows how to take us. Some gay guys really STRONGLY dislike drags. Others don’t have a problem, but don’t really know what to make of them. I think that’s fair too, because we’re complicated.
I’m curious about this, and know nothing about it myself. Please, enlighten me.
Drag queens are organized into families. Not everyone is a member of a drag family, but a lot of them are. Some are looser than others. I’m lucky because mine is fairly tight. Drag families are organized around a “mother” who frequently has a husband, and they have children. Sometimes their children will take on the name of the mother. For example, my drag mother is Kelly Garrett. I took on the name “Sarah Lee Garrett” and I have a sister “Betty Garrett.” If you spend a lot of time in an area, you’ll start to see a lot of the same names. For example, around here there’s the Maherises, the Powers’, the Starrs, the Coutures, the Lares, the Blakes, the Dovers, the Carreros, etc..
The daughters are real girls or drags, their sons are usually guys that don’t want to do drag, although sometimes they’re butch lesbians. The drag mother teaches her daughters how to do drag, and we all pitch in together when we compete in pageants. You also have aunts and uncles, because all these families are interconnected and frequently have extended histories.
It’s cool, because it’s one of the few places I’ve found in the gay world where you can have a deep relationship with an older gay person and you’re not instantly assumed to be sleeping together. Some of these families go back forever. This whole culture only exists in America too, which is interesting. It’s totally unique. I wish more anthropology was done on it.
There’s a lot of queens who are self taught too, but everywhere I’ve been, I’ve found drag families.
But.. one shouldn’t sweep fetishism under the rug in those groups because my observation has been that S&M play is more frequently the exception than the rule.
Reverse that. “..rule than exception.”
I found this link which mentions drag families in DC.
Oh yeah! Mame Dennis, this old queen who heads the group I perform with, is part of that group. It’s a neat project. Some of their stories about how it was in the old days are just plain wild.
I’m actually very thankful we’re a little more tame these days.
You need to hang out with more lesbians. They like to congregate, but many of them don’t like bars.
Lots of places for the last few years have been putting the L first in LGBT, just so men don’t get too cocky.
i think i’m a lesbian… at least at heart 😉
The simple ‘lesbian man’ test
I’ve heard so many times “I’m a lesbian trapped in a man’s body” that I came up with a differentiating test: does the idea of taking the hormones, lasering off your facial and chest hair, and maybe even having your genitalia surgically revamped appeal to you? If yes, I’ll not give you shit for claiming inner lesbianism 😉 Otherwise, I reserve the to taunt you for it. =)
Why does the ‘l’ always come after the ‘g’ in glbt?
it’s funny that is your experience because i have only ever heard it as lgbt. glbt sounds really weird to me. it also seems stupid that anyone would care. i never even gave the fact that the g came after the l in lgbt a second thought. so lesbians got top billing, who cares?
some people can be ludicrously sensitive about nonsense like that, though. i just wish they would learn to let go of petty little shit because holding onto it doesn’t help anything. it’s like those people who think that the word freshman is somehow misogynistic because it has the word “men” in it. dumb.
I can only offer anecdotes, and not anything that could be considered statistics, or scientific fact, but, well, here goes:
Goth/Industrial clubs and concerts seem to end up frequently at gay and lesbian bars out here. Not sure why, perhaps because everyone’s pretty accepting in the goth/industrial scene, or perhaps it is some other reason. In any case, I’ve been to two different clubs out here, one of which was held at a lesbian bar, the other at a gay/lesbian bar. At both, I’d say the lesbians outnumbered the males in the bars (and I’m only assuming to be lesbians the ones who were actively making out or cuddling together – if they were just a female alone in the club, I make no assumptions). I’ve also ended up at another lesbian bar for a concert – first time I’ve ever been somewhere that the two restrooms available were “womens” and “unisex”. For that last one, I couldn’t really gauge the business, since it was a concert, but for the club nights, the business seemed to be doing reasonably well. Heck, they seemed to be doing better business than most the “regular” bars I’ve been to out here. Only the sports bars seem to do better…
But that’s my purely anecdotal evidence based in a relatively glbt-friendly region….
I had a (straight male) friend who was trying to become a techno DJ in the bay area. Since he lived in San Jose, any events there that weren’t totally lame were his priority.
Anyway, apparently the best spot for techno DJs to play at in San Jo is this little out-of-the-way lesbian bar. (forgot what it was called)
Great music. And lots of really attractive girls that I can’t hit on.
You could hit on them…
The L always comes first before the G over here on this side of the coast….